WIP - 1/35 Academy CV9040B

[Tom Zuijdwegt]

Hi, I'm looking to build a Focke Wulf FW-189 as used by the Norwegian air force after the war. It was called "The Green Man". I'm looking for reference materials and pcitures. Can you help me?

 

Tom Zuijdwegt

The Netherlands

[Einar Sandvik]

May be I am wrong, but as far as I know there exists only one photo of that airplane. 

 

Forsvarets Flysamling Gardermoen has more information than me, so I will advise You to ask them too.

[Einar Sandvik]

I must correct myself. More than one picture of The Green man exist.

[Olve Dybvig]

[Einar Sandvik]

Colours?

 

I suggest green upper side, maybe something close to FS 34096 which was used on Norwegian post war spitfires.

 

Under side colour seems to be black. 

 

The colour of the spinner, besides white, is mere guesswork, but it resembles the upper side colour of the plane in shade.

 

[Nils Mathisrud]

The term "used" might be a bit misleading, as there is no indication that it was actually flown in Norwegian colours, except from a ferry flight from Bardufoss to Gardermoen - still in original colours.

 

The lower sides were definitely not black, more likely the same colour as the upper sides. It is hard to guess a colour from a b/w photo, unless you have something to compare to (some people claim to have this devine skill though - bless them). In all the photos that I have of this aircraft, the surface colour greytone is more or less identical to the red in the insignia - as shown by the cut-and-drag method in the photo. I have just moved the triangle up, and it is not possible to distinguish it from the background. So possibly The Green Man actually was painted red ? 

 

Nils

[Einar Sandvik]

Different colours might look the same shade of grey on black and white photos depending on how dark the colurs are.

 

I have always fancied that "The Green man" was green, expecially since it was a military plane. However I know the name derives from a popular pub in England. The beer mug drawing below the name underlines that.

 

Endret 6. mai 2021 av Einar Sandvik

[Einar Sandvik]

6 timer siden, Nils Mathisrud skrev:

The term "used" might be a bit misleading, as there is no indication that it was actually flown in Norwegian colours, except from a ferry flight from Bardufoss to Gardermoen - still in original colours.

 

The lower sides were definitely not black, more likely the same colour as the upper sides. It is hard to guess a colour from a b/w photo, unless you have something to compare to (some people claim to have this devine skill though - bless them). In all the photos that I have of this aircraft, the surface colour greytone is more or less identical to the red in the insignia - as shown by the cut-and-drag method in the photo. I have just moved the triangle up, and it is not possible to distinguish it from the background. So possibly The Green Man actually was painted red ? 

 

Nils

 

I agree that the under side colour looks similar to the upper side colour in the picture shown here, and I think that the name of the plane "The Green Man" could indicate that the plane was painted all green.

 

However my suggestion of black under side derives from the upper picture that Olve shows us. There the under side looks black to me. The beer mug insignia could seemingly lay in a shadow caused by the wing, but the light seems to me to come against the front of the plane, not from behind, when looking at light on the weels. The undercarriage also looks black to me in that picture.

 

The explanation could be that these two pictures shows that "The Green Man" originally had black under side from German war service but later got the lower side repainted in the same colour as the upper side.

Endret 6. mai 2021 av Einar Sandvik

[Nils Mathisrud]

2 hours ago, Einar Sandvik said:

 

The explanation could be that these two pictures shows that "The Green Man" originally had black under side from German war service but later got the lower side repainted in the same colour as the upper side.

 

 

Seems to me to an awful lot ow work. What would the purpose be?

[Einar Sandvik]

Fw 189 was designed as a tactical reconnaissanse plane, but was also used as a light bomber and even as a night fighter. These planes could get different camouflage shemes depending on type of service, but normally it was painted in splinter camo in two green colours on top and light blue under. For night duties German planes could have their undersides painted black.

 

This particular plane was probably painted in standard splinter sheme, with RLM 65 or black under sides when the Norwegians took over the plane, and it seems that the Norwegians painted the whole plane in one colour when they painted Norwegian markings on it.

 

Standard colour for propellers on German aircrafts was black green, but here, for one reason or other,  propellers are painted white. 

 

The picture from Olve which I mentioned earlier, is possibly taken before the whole plane was repainted in Norwegian colours.

[Nils Mathisrud]

Looking at the wing leading edge, the wing seems lighter in the underside then the upper side. Furthermore, the undersides of the engines does not seem to be black to me.

 

Was the aircraft actually flown operative in Norwegian service? All references that I have come across says that it was only used for ground service. This makes any camouflage superflous - especially using time and resources on it. White propeller blades would be logical though, as it makes the hazardous rotating propellers easyer too see when parked, or possibly taxying on the ground.

[Einar Sandvik]

The simplest way to make this plane Norwegian, was of course just to paint Norwegian roundels over the iron crosses and swasticas and overpaint codes with a green colour, leaving the rest of the aircraft in it`s original camouflage sheme.

 

The only good quality picture of "The Green Man" is the first one from Olve, showing the front of the aircraft. The dark paint of the area where the beer mug drawing is situated, indicates that the plane at the time when the picture was taken has standard german splinter camo, probabely RLM 70 and RLM 71 on the upper side. I am not sure if the underside colour is RLM 65 lying in dark shadow or has been overpainted in black. 

 

It is often hard to discern camouflage pattern on war time photograps of german planes, and he other two pictures of "The Green Man" is of poor quality, so I must admit that it is a possibility that this aircraft kept its german camo and was never repainted.

[Nils Mathisrud]

14 hours ago, Einar Sandvik said:

The dark paint of the area where the beer mug drawing is situated, indicates that the plane at the time when the picture was taken has standard german splinter camo, probabely RLM 70 and RLM 71 on the upper side.

 

A problem with this theory is that the standard camouflage pattern does not have this demarcation line as standard....

[Olve Dybvig]

I will suggest that the color of this plane is overall Darkish green or a similar color that will appear dark green on a B/W photo

[Einar Sandvik]

1 time siden, Nils Mathisrud skrev:

 

A problem with this theory is that the standard camouflage pattern does not have this demarcation line as standard....

I have seen a wide variety in patterns on war time pictures, so I would not take that as a proof.

 

I can see 3 possible explanations of the dark field around the beer mug:

1. It is part of a splinter pattern, possibly in black green.

2. It is part of a black underside coating reaching up towards the underside of the wing.

3. The engine hatch has a bend causing the rear part of the engine hatch with the ber mug painted on to lay in shadow, like the rest of the engine gondola behind.

 

The third explanation makes it still possible that the plane was painted in splinter camo, but also makes possible that it was painted in one single colour. Sigh!

[Nils Mathisrud]

A comparison of the engine panel before and after repainting. The inset photo is taken after the aircraft has been scrapped. It is interesting to see how carefully both text and beer mug has been recreated after repainting the aircraft. It seems to me that it is almost identical....

[Einar Sandvik]

Do you have more pictures of the aircraft than those shown abowe? And do you know for sure that the aircraft or just this panel was repainted?

 

 

Endret 10. mai 2021 av Einar Sandvik

[Olve Dybvig]

4 timer siden, Nils Mathisrud skrev:

A comparison of the engine panel before and after repainting. The inset photo is taken after the aircraft has been scrapped. It is interesting to see how carefully both text and beer mug has been recreated after repainting the aircraft. It seems to me that it is almost identical....

How do you know that this is before and after repainting ?

 

[Nils Mathisrud]

36 minutes ago, Olve Dybvig said:

How do you know that this is before and after repainting ?

 

 

According to Einar, the main photo is still in Luftwaffe splinter camo, so it must be before any repainting.
The inset photo shows the panel after the aircraft is scrapped. It is reasonable to believe that it was not repainted after that.....

[Einar Sandvik]

5 timer siden, Nils Mathisrud skrev:

 

According to Einar, the main photo is still in Luftwaffe splinter camo, so it must be before any repainting.
The inset photo shows the panel after the aircraft is scrapped. It is reasonable to believe that it was not repainted after that.....

Studying the best photograph of "The Green Man" over again, I have become in doubt about this matter as I mentioned earlier: 

"I can see 3 possible explanations of the dark field around the beer mug:

1. It is part of a splinter pattern, possibly in black green.

2. It is part of a black underside coating reaching up towards the underside of the wing.

3. The engine hatch has a bend causing the rear part of the engine hatch with the ber mug painted on to lay in shadow, like the rest of the engine gondola behind."

 

A picture tells more than a thousand words, so I have tried to show what I mean here, considering that the light comes in from left and that the hatch might be a bit curved. Notice what appears to be a shadow behind right wheel.

Endret 10. mai 2021 av Einar Sandvik

[Einar Sandvik]

Do we see a part of dark paint on top of the right engine nacelle, or is it a shadow from the propeller?

 

 

[Einar Sandvik]

På 10.5.2021 den 9.08, Nils Mathisrud skrev:

A comparison of the engine panel before and after repainting. The inset photo is taken after the aircraft has been scrapped. It is interesting to see how carefully both text and beer mug has been recreated after repainting the aircraft. It seems to me that it is almost identical....

The likeness is so complete that I'm now convinced that the engine panel was not repainted during the time in between the taking of those two photos. This implies that the beer mug is situated in a shadow caused by a curve of the panel and that it's not dark paint in this area.

 

If the plain actually was repainted, I am now pretty sure this repainting must have been done before the taking of the first picture.

 

If the underside colour was RLM 65, it would have looked brighter than the upper side colour of this aircraft. I see no difference here, so it is likely that the underside colour was the same as the upper side colour. Given the name of the aircraft, I suggest this aircraft was painted green all over.

 

 

 

Endret 12. mai 2021 av Einar Sandvik

[Nils Mathisrud]

Four Fw 189 aircraft of 1/Nahaufklärungsgruppe 32 were flown from Bardufoss to Gardermoen in September 1945. Two being of type A-2 while two being A-3. W. Nr. 2147 / GI+EU (an A-3) was one among these.

 

One of the four was taken over by the RNAF and had the new Norwegian roundels (that were introduced from 1 December 1945) applied. Whether 2147 was the one that became "The Green Man" is not verified. The aircraft destroyed in the spring of 1946.

 

 

[Einar Sandvik]

Kåre told that "The Green Man" was an A-2. I dont know where he has this information from.

[Nils Mathisrud]

I wrote an article in Limtuben back in 1986, stating it was an A-2. It should not be taken as hard evidence.