RNoAF P-3B or N

[Ricardo Horta]

Hi guys! Sorry for writing in English, but I am Portuguese and I can't speak Norwegian. At ARC, one of your members, Kyrre, suggested I post some questions here about your P-3B.

 

I would like to build one P-3B with a 1985 configuration (Cold War freak, here). However, the only kit available in 1/72, is the Hasegawa/Revell P-3C Update II/III. What do I need to backdate it to one of your P-3B? It's very hard to find photos of that time, so all help will be great.

 

So far, the only thing I was told was to fil the sonobuoys launchers and leave one open (which one?)

 

Also, I was told the windows are different, but I compared photos of the P-3B and P-3C and didn't see any difference.

 

What else?

 

Thanks in advance,

Ricardo

[Kyrre Ingebrethsen]

Ricardo,

 

Just so it's said the main vacation period has started and some of those in the know have already started their holiday. So be patient.  And if noone comes through for you I'll be re-attached to my books next month and will get the scanner up and running.

Meanwhile I'm sure you have a few other kits to do. 

 

Kyrre

 

 

 

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

Hi Ricardo,

 

No problem with your English - Norwegians are used to make themselves misunderstood in foreign languages.

 

Somewhere I have an article copied from an old issue of the IPMS Norway magazine Limtuben, and that explained the mods and updates to do a P-3B from the mid 80s.  Now where did I put it...?

 

In the meantime, dig into your F-16!

 

Jens

[Ricardo Horta]

Thanks for the photos Kyrre. I bought both the F-16A and P-3C yesterday in Lisbon. The P-3C is, as expected, the old Hasegawa kit. Only game in town for a 1/72nd P-3, so we have to live with some of the shorcomings, such as no gear bay details... actually, no gear bay. Maybe with the reissue of the kit some aftermarket company will make parts for it. Probably after I finish the P-3.

 

So far it seems that it's possible to make a P-3B out of a P-3C without having to buy 3 kits and saw parts from one, to put on the other. That's a good start. Second, it seems that the major issues can be resolved just by filling panels and windows (the two smaller ones on the back, starboard side). Now there are minor issues, such as antennae that I'll have to check to make sure I put the correct ones on the correct position. Finally, decals: Superscale has some (72-435) that I'll have to get somewhere. I have only checked local stores and they don't have any left.

 

That IPMS article would be great, especially if it's in English

 

Well, I'm going on mini vacations today, but I'll try to check the forum on the library where I'm going: Cuba, in the south of Portugal, 20 Km away from Beja (those who attended the 2002 Tiger Meet know where it is and how HOT it is). That's also the place where historians are now saying that Cristopher Columbus was born, and that his name was not even Columbus, but that's another story, eheh.

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

Ricardo

[Kyrre Ingebrethsen]

Jens, I have a hunch the article was in an IPMS Memo article and not Limtuben. I've got the mag somewhere. With emphasis on somewhere.

 

Ricardo, enjoy your holiday.

 

Kyrre

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

Kyrre, my somewhere is probably easier to find than your somewhere, so I'll dig it out in a few days when I finish Milliputing the air intake of the Typhoon.

 

Ricardo,

 

If you are looking for a cold war warrior, then you will be making a P-3B - the N was a converted P-3B, but these were converted after we took delivery of the P-3Cs in 1989.  If you can find the Superscale sheet for P-3Bs that has the Norwegian P-3 on it, then grab it - it's been long discontinued and is hard to find.

 

And enjoy your holidays and the heat.

 

Jens

[Ricardo Horta]

I'm back from my mini vacations. So far I started the F-16, but something on the Revell kit are bugging me. First it's the yellowish canopy. Second it's the shape of the canopy. Third, but this is probably my mistake, the seat doesn't fit well on the cockpit. Luckily I tried before gluing the fuselages. Usually the seat is the last thing I put on a kit. If I did that, I'm sure I'd unglue the cockpit from the fuselage top.

 

I took the P-3 with me but I simply let it stay. I'm waiting for that article

 

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

Ricardo

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

Ricardo,

 

Sorry for the delay, but I hope I can use my lunchbreak to somethign useful.  The article in IPMS-memo is in Norwegian language only (no surprises there), so I will skim through it for the key points on detailing and converting the Hasegawa kit to a P-3B. This article details the "Roald Amundsen" (call no 600) only due to the slight differences in between aircraft.

 

-  There were slight differences between the aircraft in radome colours and antenna configurations.

-  Make the 300 mm dia optical window behind the cockpit windows on the LH side.

-  On the RH fuselage half, fFill in the window for the radar operator (not sure which one this is) and the two galley windows (D4).

-  Fill all sonobuoy chutes in part C1, but leave the hole for the cabin air exhaust.

-  Remove strobe light on C1 - this is in a different position.

-  The stairs are different between the B and the C.

-  Remove the Omega aerial and the camera unit (the square box on a semicircular base) and the aerial on top of the tailfin.

-  Remove camera under nose (this is probably removed in the later kits anyway)

-  Add bleed air vents on the engine nacelles (120x80 mmms)

-  Fill all holes for pylons as 333 Sqn rarely use these.  If they do, only the two outer pylons on each wing. 

-  Do not use the LLTV and ECM pods that come with the kit.

-  You may choose to scratchbuild a searchlight for the RH inner pylon that was used during winter - none is included in the kit.

-  Antennas on Norwegian aircraft are different from other countries, so I will just have to scan these pics and email them to you.

-  The strobelight on the spine is correct in location, and on the real thing is split horizontally white/red, white nearest the fuselage.

-  Make a new Omega aerial.

-  Add windscreen wipers from scratch.

-  Colour is overall gloss Dark Sea Grey.

-  Old radomes were black, new ones were semigloss grey - similar to radomes on the F-16.

-  Wingtip ESM antenna fairings (looks like a chamfer) are black for the forward facing, the rear are light grey (as the F-16 radome).

-  ADF antenna under the belly and the MAD boom should be naturla fibreglass (dirty tan colour).

-  Allwing leading edges gloss olive green caused by a transparent protective film that yellows over the dark grey. 4" wide on tailfin, stabs and outer wing, 6" wide on two inner sections of win.

-  Walkways on wings are matt black, walkways on tailplanes are 1" wide white line.

-  Matt black antiglare.

-  Spinners and cuffs are matt black, propeller aluminium, yellow tips.

-  Window in RH emergency exit is blanked ou to prevent glare.  Paint the inside light grey.  Light grey can also simulate window at RH side rear of cabin.

-  Wheelwells and legs, gloss white.

-  Roundels in 4 positions 600 mm diameter, call no on tail 400 mm, 150 mm on nose, aircraft name in 110 mm high characters.

 

Still with us?

 

Jens

[Ricardo Horta]

Hey, Jens, THANKS!

 

I don't have the kit here with me, so I'm confused about somethings, but I probably know what you mean once I look at the parts. Nevertheless, I can now start at least by filling the windows and the sonobuoy launcher holes.

 

Okay... so the Harpoons would be carried on the outer pylons and not under the fuselage, right?

 

I'll post some photos if I have doubts

 

Thanks again,

 

Ricardo

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

Harpoons?  To my knowledge the RNoAF have never used Harpoons, but the P-3s dropped live mines during the search for submarines in the 80s.  The sketches that I will be scanning has an aerial with the text AGM-12B, which indicates the Bullpup was cleared for the P-3.  Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk made the Bullpup on licence (these went to the RNoAF, RAF and RN), but it was not very efficient and found little actual use.  And the Penguin Mk.3  was not cleared until 1989, but I'm not sure if the Penguin was cleared for the P-3.  My guess is that it was not, as the F-16 was the primary platform for providing anti-invasion defence.  If you want a typical Cold War warrior, leave the plane clean unless you fancy scratchbuilding a searchlight.

 

Jens

[Ricardo Horta]

Okay, then. I was under the impression that the RNoAF P-3B could carry the Harpoon. My bad and too bad. It would look very cool.

 

Ricardo

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

Oh, I am sure the P-3B *could* carry Harpoons, but the RNoAF don't use that missile, and hence the crews wouldn't be training on loading it, flying with it and firing it and all the other things that make it sensible to hang on a plane.  It did cause a fuss in the press in the early 80s when they discovered that the Norwegian F-16s *could* carry nukes, but the plane was cleared to carry such "shapes" and contained the bits to make them go "boom".  Taking this functionality out of the plane meant having a special version just for the RNoAF, and would increase cost and reduce inter-operability with our European NATO partners.  Yes, the Belgians and Dutch still fly with B61 shapes under the wings...  Anyway, before we're drifting wildly off target, I think your P-3B would look best and most appropriate clean.  And speaking of clean, there are pics of Norwegian P-3Bs in an apparently shabby condition.  I think these are paint touchups, but not positive.  The planes are washed down after each mission to prevent corrosion due to many hours at low level, and the glossy paint will make it difficult for the grime to get a hold, so you shouldn't go too heavy on the weathering.

 

Jens

[Ricardo Horta]

Okay, so for the RNoAF the P-3 was just a surveillance platform rather than a surveillance/attack, then?

 

Ricardo

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

Oh, the P-3 was (and still is) a sub-hunter, but you are right - most of the time it served as a maritime patrol aircraft and surveillance.  We didn't have many people we could drop stuff on  , though there was a period in the 80s where the Navy and Air Force tried to force up what was thought to be foreign submarines in our fjords.  This included depth charges and rockets launched from surface vessels and the P-3.  Basically it just proved how damned difficult it is to find a submarine in a fjord and to force it to the surface provided you can find it.  I do believe that the P-3s are also gathering intelligence, though I doubt you will find anyone who will confirm that, and I would think the P-3Bs did the same.

 

Jens

[Ricardo Horta]

Yes, but I thought that your P-3, in case of war with the Warsaw Pact, would fire some Harpoons at incoming Soviet LPD's since I'm sure the soviets would try to invade Norway and take over the airbases, ports, etc. I know about the Penguins, but I really thought the RNoAF used the Harpoon on the P-3B. My mistake, but a clean aircraft will look impressive. The great fun here will be modifying the Hasegawa/Revell kit

 

Ricardo

[Øystein E Nåvik]

Here's a pic of P-3B 602 on Moffet Field in June 1982 (found on the net):

 

cheers

Øystein

 

 

[Ricardo Horta]

Here's a photo of part C1 on the Revell/Hasegawa 1/72 P-3C. On this part, which hole is the cabin air exhaust one? Is it the hole on the top left corner of the part?

 

 

 

Ricardo

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

From what I can see of the sketches, yes it is.  The article also mentions that it should be a little bigger, but it doesn't say by how much.  If you're in doubt, I'd leave it as it is.

 

Jens

[Ricardo Horta]

I'll take this photo as a basis. It's from a P-3C, but I assume that they didn't change the size of the hole. It's not much bigger, but it's an easy thing to do, so I'll enlarge it just a little bit.

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

BTW, is the dia optic window behind the cockpit on the left side a real window? It looks like a circle painted black on the photos.

 

Ricardo

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

The optical window is a real window, but I guess it appears black on most pictures because the inside of the cockpit is pretty dark, and few pictures are taken from an angle that would show light on the other side...  For my P-3C I just drilled out a hole and filled it with Kristal Kleer.

 

Jens

[Ricardo Horta]

Okay, good news.

 

Mike Grant of Mike Grant Decals sent me a sheet of RNoAF roundels in several sizes... I didn't ask for anything. He just sent it to me, completely free after sending me a PM on the ARC forum. All I can say is WOW!

 

Now, I have been told that I shouldn't fill all sonobuoy launch "holes". I had the filler and the part on my hand, almost ready to start, but now it's on hold...

 

Ricardo

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

RNoAF roundels from Mike Grant?  Don't just stand there man, scan them (or some) and let us see!  Maybe he would be the person to ask for P-3B markings - the name on the fuselage is a non-standard font.  Sort of the same font as Scandiavian Airlines used for the viking names on their planes with the dragon-stripe livery.

 

Jens

[Per Einar Jansen]

:)

 

Mabe the roundels are part of something I sent Mike a long time ago 

 

regards Per Einar

[Ricardo Horta]

Here it is. I reduced the size and the resolution to protect Mike's work. I hope he doesn't mind me putting his sheet here.

 

 

Ricardo

[Jens Håkon Brandal]

On the contrary Ricardo.  The roundels seem to be correct in colour and proportions and registration.  Three things decal manufacturers (except Vingtor) seem to struggle to get right. Except the Specialtryck decals of many years ago (some of which are impossible to find), the only RNoAF roundels on the market are from Flying Colours, and although the artwork is correct, they sometimes struggle with registration.

 

Thanks for posting that Ricardo.

 

Jens